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The Truth, The Bible and Everything between
Are you seeking truth and practical wisdom from the Bible? Look no further than "The Truth, The Bible and Everything Between" podcast. Join us for in-depth discussions relevant to all Christians and those hungry for the profound insights of the Scriptures. Delve into practical applications of biblical teachings and explore the intersections between faith, life, and everything in between. Tune in to enlightening conversations that bridge the gap between spiritual truths and everyday realities. Embark on a journey of discovery and growth.
The Truth, The Bible and Everything between
Episode 10 - Grace vs Law in Christianity
What if the Christian journey was a delicate dance between the weight of ancient laws and the liberating embrace of grace? Join us as we unravel this compelling dichotomy, starting with an illuminating reflection on past heresies. Michael and Daniel Peters guide us through an exploration of the Old Testament laws, particularly those within the Torah, shedding light on their historical and spiritual significance. Daniel delves into his own initial bewilderment upon encountering these divine instructions and emphasizes how the Ten Commandments serve as a bedrock for both Jewish faith and Christian ethics.
As we move forward, the discussion shifts to the unmerited gift of grace, which is revealed through the new covenant with Jesus Christ. We explore how the laws were meant to set the Israelites apart and how grace provides a path to salvation that transcends those laws. Ephesians 2:8-9 becomes a focal point for understanding this transformative power, urging us to find harmony between adherence to the law and the freedom that grace offers. The conversation is a profound exploration of how these principles inform a believer's daily walk, ensuring that neither legalism nor moral laxity takes hold.
In our final thoughts, we celebrate the transformative journey of living under God's grace, guided by the Spirit. The discussion highlights the internal conflict between the flesh and the Spirit, underscoring how grace empowers true freedom and righteousness. With insights from Galatians and Romans, we reflect on how the law reveals God's standards, while grace manifests His love. We conclude with an invitation for our listeners to join the conversation, share their thoughts, and even participate in future episodes, creating a vibrant community rooted in shared faith and growth.
If you have any thoughts or suggestions that you'd like to share with us, please don't hesitate to reach out to us at thebibleandtheologypodcast@gmail.com. We are always happy to hear from you!
Welcome everybody to yet another episode of the truth, the bible and everything between. You're here with your host, michael, and daniel peters. There we go, mr Dan. So, my friends, today we have another episode. Today, specifically, we're going to talk about grace versus law in christianity. But before we get into it, dan, do you want to do your Dan's recap from the podcast from last time?
Speaker 2:Right, thank you, michael. The recap the only trouble is art. Coming back to me, heresies yeah, so my main thing with the heresy is do you sort of think about it and is that you, are you actually noticing what you're doing? With reference to the Bible and history as well, because if you see what people have done before, you should be smarter. So I think that was about it, and other than that, I think there are some people doing some silly things and they don't know about it, and other than that, I think there are some people doing some silly things and they don't know.
Speaker 1:But look, then I think it was really good for us just to articulate a little bit more about what we believe as as christians, and what is the correct way of viewing god and his divine. You know, like I almost made it sound a little bit new age, but like it's god and his divinity, you know like and and how that ties in with Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I think it was very insightful. But y'all, then let's get into it today. So we're talking about law and grace, two things that sounded a little bit opposite of nature, but we're gonna, through this episode, actually talk about how they can actually complement each other. So then, I was thinking in the first part, we can actually talk about how they can actually complement each other. So, dan, I was thinking in the first part, we can actually talk about understanding the law in scripture. So, before we get into it, dan, what do you understand with regards to the law? If you hear the word the law, what do you think about immediately?
Speaker 2:Well, this is interesting, michael, and to sort of make this easy, when I first became a Christian, I didn't have the slightest idea what it meant. And I was reading it and I was thinking Pharisees, you know, like what? What is a Pharisee Like? You know, they're like termites or something. But, um, it is actually basically the way that I understand the law. Um is just quite essentially that, you know, god gave the law to moses and he made a covenant with the israelites which was good for them and it was because, you know, if he'd already blessed abraham and said that he would make the nation of Israel. And from then on, if you read what happened, I'm sure everyone knows the Ten Commandments, but obviously, if you read the whole story, it's ridiculously detailed, like you know exactly what to do, when to do it.
Speaker 2:I mean everything, like if you have a slave, you must pierce their ear against a doorpost, and you know like I mean so anyway, then the israelites went on to continually just break the law, and particularly like extreme. You know they'd have like sacrifices and orgies, you know, in the reign of Jezebel and King Ahab went on and on and on. And so this is the state of man, as, with regard to keeping the law, and if you had have kept it, if there was someone who kept it perfectly, then they would be righteous.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, dan, that's very interesting. Then they would be righteous. Yeah, so then that's very interesting, like everything that you touched on. You know, like for those viewers that don't know, the law can be found in the old testament. Um, it's also known as the torah, which is essentially the first five books of the old testament. This is widely regarded as the official law that the Jewish people live by, because this is basically what laid the foundation for the entire belief system and, like Dan mentioned, it had all of the things given to Moses from God to tell the Israelites exactly how they had to live under the divine covenant that God has established with the nation of Israel. And you know, like Dan, you mentioned a little bit of the 10 commandments. So, for those of you who don't know, the 10 commandments can actually be found in scripture, in Exodus 20. I'm going to read a little bit from that for us, so maybe I'll just read the entire piece. What do you think, dan?
Speaker 2:Yeah, why not?
Speaker 1:Okay, so I'll be quick about it. Exodusodus 20, verse 1 to 17 I am the lord, your god, who brought you out of egypt or out of the land of slavery. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above, or on earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them, for I, the lord, your god, am a jealous god, shall not bow down to them or worship them, for I, the Lord, your God, am a jealous God punishing the children of for the sin, even to the third and fourth generation?
Speaker 1:yeah, is that it for sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to thousands of generations for those who love and keep my commandments. You shall not misuse the name of the Lord, your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name. Next one remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your works, but the seventh day is the Sabbath day to the Lord, your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. For six days, the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore, the Lord blesses the Sabbath day and made it holy. Honor your father and mother so that you may live long in the land that the Lord God has given you. You shall not murder. You shall Lord God has given you. You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony against your neighbor. You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor.
Speaker 1:Okay, ten commandments, then. You know, like I, I think it's quite interesting how it's laid out and it particularly it makes a lot of sense. Yes, it does. I think it's a good system that helps to guide. You know like what, what you shouldn't, should not do. But now the big question comes in, dan. So that's the law, and obviously the law entails a lot more than just that, friends. You know, like you can read the first five books of the old testament. You know like there's a lot there. Like dan said, they even have specific things and what you should do. Um, for, like you, you mentioned something about a slave there, dan nobody has.
Speaker 1:Like I hope nobody has a slave today. But I mean, back then things were a little bit different and you know like there were very specific things that you had to do in specific circumstances and for you to be deemed righteous you had to follow these things to a tee. There was no compromise. There was no thing was like, oh, you can do this but not this. So the law was very difficult to actually keep. Now the big question is, dan. So why did God give us a law that no one could keep?
Speaker 2:Well, I think Paul talks about this and I think he says he uses the example that the law was like a tutor and basically it was to show us, first of all, that there was such a thing as sin, because without the law, paul said, you don't actually have knowledge of sin. Yes, but then he said that sin was deceitful and took advantage of the law and slew him. So the problem with the law, which you get to very quickly, is that you couldn't keep it, but the law was actually just and the law was fair and, before it gets confusing, just to qualify this, jesus was the only one who was actually perfect and did not sin and was able to keep the law, and so it says that basically, by the law, we were able to see that we had the need for jesus and that we actually are sinful and the law is still. It says that the law is still just and you know it's um, it's basically. It's basically to show us that that we're evil and we can't do it.
Speaker 1:you know, I cut to the chase and then I actually have a beautiful Bible scripture to compliment that and it comes from Galatians 3, and it says Galatians 3, verse 24. So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. So what we also need to understand with regards to the law, you know, during that time the Israelites was a nation being formed, you know, like the nation of Israel. They were walking around. You know, like this is before they settled into the promised land that God has promised to them. And you know, like, on their way there, god wanted to make sure that they had the foundations on which they will build their society.
Speaker 1:And a lot of those laws set the Israelites apart from the nations surrounding them. They just did things in a different way. The nations around them would, would constantly engage in things that are we would deem ungodly. You know, like, and obviously God, I sometimes look at the law and you know I'll look at something like you shall not eat pork. And I'm thinking, yes, man, the poor Israelites, they could never experience bacon. But then I thought about it, dan, you know, like, maybe the reason why God also gave the law is because he just wanted the best for them. You know, like pork is not good for you, man, like I know it tastes amazing, but it's simply not healthy, man.
Speaker 2:I've sort of you, you know studied similar angles on this and there was quite a lot of things about the law which, as you said, were quite practical because, for example, they they were to eat foods which were clean. Yeah, now, um, I'm not gonna name any names, but I've heard of people eating things which are not good. I mean, carly and I were walking past a canal and they had mud skippers in it, yeah, and like they were filthy and carly said can you eat those?
Speaker 2:and just using my instinct, I said to a please, though my instinct tells me you should not eat that.
Speaker 1:And I googled it and found a story about a man in china called a mud skipper cooked it, ate it and died so there's an example, but but that's the thing you know like, I think the law was also there for the purpose of of safeguarding israel, you know like, and setting them apart from what all the other nations you know. Now, dan, as we move to our second section, we spoke a little bit about law. Now what about grace, the role of grace, especially in the new covenant. So you actually mentioned that there was an old covenant made with the nation of Israel. Now many Christians also understand that when you give your life to Jesus, you enter into a covenant with him. Right Now, what role does grace play in that covenant, dan, before we even get into it, what are your opinions about that?
Speaker 2:Well, I can remember when I first became a Christian and before I believed in Jesus, I didn't think there was anything wrong, really, although I guess I did have a conscience of sorts I wouldn't have killed someone, you know, I probably would have thought that's not right. After I realized that there was a God and that he was righteous, and that I had done all sorts of sins and I hadn't even cared about it, you know. But I realized that they were sins and I hadn't even cared about it, you know. But I realized that they were wrong and I sort of I understood oh, there is evil, there's me.
Speaker 2:You know it's not just perfect. Grace is basically that you don't. You don't have that because Jesus has died for you and he's been gracious to give you his life and what, what he does for you. So you know Jesus has taken all that and destroyed it. You know it says that like it's nailed to his cross. So Jesus is perfect for you and grace is, yeah, that's that's sort of the difference between you actually having that, all of that filth and everything you did. It's just gone. You know that's grace. You can't do it for yourself, as opposed to the law where you actually that's you. You know you've got to do it or you die.
Speaker 1:Dan, I think what you said has a lot of merit and it's beautiful. Because the concept of grace is so interesting? Actually, because grace is God's unmerited love for us. That means it's unconditional. We don't deserve it, we're not deserving of God's grace. God just shows us like unimaginable favor for no reason, basically yeah, yeah. Well, the reason we also obviously know now is the reason why God shows us grace is because Jesus died for us. But without Jesus. Taking Jesus away from that equation, we don't deserve anything.
Speaker 1:There's nothing I could have done on this earth to deserve God's grace, even if I tried to uphold God's law. How difficult would that be then? There's no way to logically do that, and it's only through grace that we actually can experience that. You know that relationship with God. I have a beautiful Bible scripture I want to share Ephesians 2, verse 8 to 9. For it is by grace that you've been saved, through faith, and this is not from yourselves. It is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast that has power, dan, what's your opinion on that brother?
Speaker 2:Well, I just think that, first of all, grace is something that anyone needs if you've ever made a mistake, so don't lie and say that you're perfect without it.
Speaker 1:I think, yeah, I think that's it, you know, and that's also the thing, dan, you know, like the law, even as good as it was, you know, like I know it was very comprehensive, it was not enough to save us. It was simply not enough. The only way we could get saved if, if God's given us enough grace and we know that God's grace is demonstrated in our lives as through Jesus, right? So you know, like, if we put everything in perspective, what do we really think about the law now? Does the law just get put aside? You know, like I think there's a balance to it, dan, I really think there is. You know, like it's like in Matthew 5 or 17,.
Speaker 1:We read this is what Jesus was talking and he said this do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have not to come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. You know this is Jesus talking. So Jesus also tells us, you know, as a Christian, don't just ignore the laws. You know, don't just ignore them. Jesus didn't just come to completely make away with them. Jesus came to fulfill them. And yes, even though we are under a new covenant, it doesn't obviously mean that we need to follow the law to the the finest points that we have read, but it still means that we should try to at least understand. You know, like what? What we've read in the law, right, dan?
Speaker 2:yeah, you're not. You're not just free to go like I think um you know Jesus did it. But that doesn't mean that you just get to be evil and still say that that's Jesus, you know.
Speaker 1:Of course, and look, I think it's very important to see what the Bible says in this regard. So how exactly do we balance grace and law as Christians? Today? This is obviously, you know, like it's 2,000 years later. We have a much broader and wider understanding of the Bible than we've ever had Because of the amount of resources and the amount of research, and you know just the culmination of what we know as the Bible today, you know, like, I think there's a place for both in any Christian's life, dan, it's very important for us all to know that we are saved by grace, but also that the laws should still be relevant in our lives, not something that should be full uh be, be completely um followed, you know, but it's something to still be understood, to understand. This is where everything came from this is where it originated from.
Speaker 1:You know like? I have a few bible scriptures here. Actually, romans 6, verse 14 to 15, says for sin shall no longer be your master because you are not under the law but under grace. What, then, shall we sin? Because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means, and I think this is where it gets most christians. Christians sometimes believe because we are in the new covenant, because we are completely under God's grace. Now we can just do what we want. But that's not the truth, Dan what's your opinion on this?
Speaker 2:Well, I think Michael's sort of really gotten to it. Now I've met Christians with extreme views going in one way or the other, and I mean both of them. I mean there are I don't know if you've heard of I think they're Mennonites and Sethians. I mean, they live on their own, they're not allowed to have mobile phones and all of this sort of stuff the Amish Well, the Amish are another one. Look, don't be offended if this is you, because go and read your Bible, okay and just see if what we're saying is actually in it.
Speaker 2:But that's to me that's just trying to be saved by the Lord. You know, I don't know where the grace comes into it. It never says in the Bible that you can't use technology. I mean, the disciples were fishing with nets. I mean, if you believe that, you may as well catch the fish with your teeth, you know like it's just so ridiculous. And on the other hand, I know Christians who think that grace just means everything is grace. So you just like you've got grace. Did you do the wrong thing? It doesn't matter, you have grace, you don't ever get judged. It doesn't matter, you have grace, you don't ever get judged. Like, basically, hell is like a, you know, like a fun like you get to have, like ice cream and you know toffee or candy apples, you know, and that's like the other problem. So I think it just doesn't work like that. There should be a balance.
Speaker 1:And look, dan, at the end of the day, you know like I've also met Christiansians that said, if it's not in the new testament, it's not relevant to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah I don't want to read it.
Speaker 1:I don't want to hear anything about it. I'm under the new covenant and I understand that approach to an extent. But just remember, if you just look at the words that jesus spoke, you know, when jesus was talking about commandments, he gave two commandments and he said love the lord, your god, with all your heart, your mind and your soul. Right, that was basically the first commandment. And then what's the second thing that he said? He says love thy neighbor as thyself.
Speaker 1:That, my friends, is the 10 commandments summed up, because just think if you love your neighbor as yourself, you wouldn't steal from them, you wouldn't lie to them, you would honor them. Remember that thing about honoring your parents. Yeah, you know like. So so many people try to think about it like if it's not in the new testament, it's not relevant to them. But if you read the new testament, it's a repeat. It's a repeat of the law. You know like and I have a beautiful bible scripture here as well john 14, verse 15. It says if you love me, keep my commands, yes, and my friends. I think that should sum it up. You know like, in terms of understanding where, where grace and the law fits in, if you love god, you will follow what he's telling you to do. And even if you're a New Testament, new Covenant Christian, if you look at Jesus's commands, there's a lot of the law that's in it already. So I think if we think about the law and grace there, it shouldn't be two opposing things. It should be complementary to each other, right.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, exactly, that's spot on, and I've studied this a bit because I've had the same thing told to me and I heard it described. As you know, we have to interpret the Bible through the lens of grace, but actually the Bible never tells you any such thing. It says that all scripture is God breathed and profitable for reproof, doctrine and training in righteousness. That's all scripture. Now, if you look at Peter, if you look at Jude, if you look at Jesus, what was Jesus quoting to the devil? He was quoting the old.
Speaker 2:Testament and that that's scripture, it's God breathed. Jesus himself is, is the word became flesh, holy. It's not something you just get to blot out. And it tells you very clearly in the New Testament what to do about the law. You know, we know that we're not under the law. We know that we're saved by grace. It says no man is justified by works of the law but by faith in Christ Jesus, who died for you. You know, but on the other hand, um, that doesn't mean that you can go out and murder. And think about what it says in first John. It says that if any man does not love his brother, he is a murderer. And we know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
Speaker 2:There are whole lists of things which in one of our earlier podcasts we've read out, things which in one of our earlier podcasts we've read out. It says neither whoremongers, nor idolaters, nor homosexuals, nor, you know, fornicators shall enter the kingdom of heaven. That's in the New Testament and really, like the whole problem is that people are sort of equating the Old Testament with the New and they're getting it wrong. You know, and the thing is like that just as far as it goes. I mean you have to pay attention to the law. It's not a joke.
Speaker 2:But then, on the other hand, you know that jesus died for you and that's sort of you know when you're actually looking at the new testament. It's related to the Old Testament. I mean Jesus, we have the whole genealogy about how he was descended right from Abraham, and I mean one of his ancestors was Rahab the prostitute you know from Jericho, and then one of you know his great, great, great great grandfather, whatever it was, was King David. Great, great, great grandfather, whatever it was, was king david. And so they're like, if you go through the new testament.
Speaker 1:Sorry, I'm getting a little bit off the beaten track.
Speaker 2:go for it. If you go through the new testament, you'll find many, many things that are actually related to the old testament and, for example, like faith, you have the hall of heroes. You know who are justified by faith, and Paul said that Abraham was justified by faith and it was because he actually believed in God, because he was prepared to sacrifice his son Isaac. It wasn't actually because he was circumcised and that, for example, abraham was justified by faith before the law of Moses was given. So that was, you know, when Paul was explaining to some of these Jews about how the law was actually, how it was applied after Jesus died.
Speaker 1:And that's the thing. It comes back to practicality. So as Christians today, dan, we understand that obviously we are not technically under the law anymore. Okay, we are under grace, but how exactly should one live under grace? And I think the bible offers a lot of interesting things to uh, to actually complement that.
Speaker 2:Thank you, you know, like you took all of my sprawling. No but no, but it's perfect. That's exactly what you were saying. It makes 100% sense.
Speaker 1:And you know, like for us to live under God's grace, it starts by us walking in the spirit. And the thing is, when we start to walk in the spirit, something amazing starts to happen in our hearts. Then it starts to transform us. Our hearts become reflective of what Christ wants us to do on this earth, because why we are not giving into the flesh no longer. And this, this could only be possible through grace. You know, like this, this whole process started with grace and this is how it's going to end up in our lives. If we follow what the Lord wants us to do, we will get to a place that that reflects how Jesus wants us to live. And it's all because the transformative power of the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 1:I have a scripture I want to read for us here Galatians 5 or 16. It says so. I say walk by the spirit and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh, for the flesh desires what is contrary to the spirit, and the spirit what is contrary to the flesh? They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want, but if you are led by the, you are not under the law.
Speaker 2:Woo, Brilliant Michael.
Speaker 1:Look at that.
Speaker 2:Thank you. I was sort of thinking of so many things, but you've tied it together, you know, because when we start from this position of, oh well, the Old Testament's not relevant that's ridiculous you know, of course, of course.
Speaker 1:And look, dan, if we look at everything in retrospect and we try to tie it all together, we always should remember that the law shows us God's standard, but His grace shows us His love. You know, like it's two sides of the same coin. God's law is not there for us to feel bad about things, dan. God's law is is there for us to to know okay, this is the standard, this is what god wants us to meet and, even though it's impossible, god made it possible for us now through grace, because this demonstrated his love. The fact that god sent jesus for us made it possible for us to have a restoration, that relationship with him. Yes, and I, and I think it's just, it's almost like a beautiful love story that we read in the bible.
Speaker 2:You know um, I was just gonna say that also. Without the law, you wouldn't understand love, because love doesn't work when you can just do anything. Now I've had arguments with people and at the end of the day I just think, well, if there's no right or wrong, that's fine, I'll cut your arms off and I'm going to pin them up, I'll call that a trophy and I'll just say, well, that's fine because I don't feel bad about it, but love doesn't do that. You know, there is such a thing as right and wrong, and jesus came and he showed us what was right. He actually did it, and that's, that's our example amen.
Speaker 1:And then I have a final bible scripture for us here, and it's absolutely beautiful. Romans 8, verse 1 to 2, says therefore there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because, through Christ Jesus, the law of the spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. Wow, you know, like Dan we, we obviously talked a little bit about law.
Speaker 1:You know like what were the wages of of of us failing to uphold the law, exactly god exactly because the thing is, if we're not able to follow the law, we commit sin, and the wages of sin is death. But through jesus, we've been given a ticket to eternal life. We've been given a ticket, given a ticket through grace. And this just comes to show, and how beautiful it is, as, as christians, you know like, it's just beautiful to see that god just made it possible for us to get into his good graces. You know like, and, and it's a gift given freely and you have to.
Speaker 2:You have to understand the law. You could never do that it's not, it's not the way some people think. You know, like the second, you go out and have lustful thought, that's it.
Speaker 1:You've broken it.
Speaker 2:You know you're not you're no longer perfect in God's eyes. You're not righteous because God is. He's righteous, he's holy, so yeah.
Speaker 1:Amen and Dan, you know, like this, everything that we spoke about just made me think. You know, like I think, because we have an understanding of this. Now let us embrace the freedom of grace and allow it to transform us from the inside out. You know, because the thing is, the moment we allow grace into our hearts, the grace that God has given us, you know, like something starts to happen. Then, the closer we become to God, the less we become like our fleshly selves. And it's beautiful, the one scripture that we read it. There's a battle. There's a battle flesh and there's a battle of of spirit, and they're constantly clashing because they cannot do the same thing right.
Speaker 2:There's another verse and it says that they that are in the flesh cannot please God, and it's you know. There's another one that says, know you not, that friendship with the world is enmity with God. So whosoever makes himself a friend of the world makes himself the enemy of God.
Speaker 2:Now, I think a lot of Christians don't realize that because, they just think oh well, you know, I believe in Jesus, that's it, it's time to have. Think, oh well, you know, I, I believe in jesus, that's it. It's it's time to have a picnic, you know, and they're not, they're not even paying attention to this stuff. But, um, jesus, he's the one, who? Who said you know that love not the world, neither the things that are in the world, for if any man loveth the world, the love of the father is not in him. And it also, um, yeah. So when you're thinking in terms of you know the flesh and the spirit, it says god is a spirit and must be worshipped in spirit and in truth, and we can only do that because of the holy spirit. You know who, who is righteous, yeah, and then, look, it just comes to show you know who is righteous.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then look, it just comes to show. You know, like in the beginning of the podcast we talked about this concept of the law and this concept of grace and how it's almost opposite I wouldn't say opposite, but like we were basically putting it against each other like law versus grace. And I don't think it's law versus grace. Yeah, I think they're complementary in nature that's you know like and this is the way to worship god.
Speaker 1:My friends, if we follow the law, we show that we love god. But obviously we know we cannot follow the law without failing but and that's where his grace comes in, you know like and, and. If we live under his grace, things start to change and our lives will also change as a result thereof.
Speaker 2:I was just also going to say that on this whole topic, like with the law, I've heard people say, for example, that you don't have to actually repent because you're a Christian. But actually it says that this is the will of God, that none should perish, but that all should come to repentance and the knowledge of the truth. The way to become a Christian is by repenting. If you neglect Jesus and you don't believe him and you don't acknowledge his righteousness and God's righteousness, then you can't actually repent and you can't become a Christian in the first place. So, number one, if you are a Christian and believe in Jesus, you have already repented. It doesn't actually exclude it. And then in quite a few verses in the New Testament, it tells Christians to repent.
Speaker 2:I mean in revelations, all those churches that are talked about in revelations. They were told to repent and they were churches. They'd already believed in Jesus. Some of them it says you know they were doing some things right, you know, but in some things they were failing. And it says um, as many as Lord loves, he corrects or he rebukes and chastises. Therefore, be zealous and repent. In 1 Corinthians, when there was a man sleeping with his father's wife, paul said that he had to mourn. In 2 Corinthians it talks about another man who had repented and Paul said that they should comfort him lest he should be overcome with excessive grief. But Paul didn't say oh, it's wrong for him to repent. He's trying to be saved by works of the law. He believed in Jesus and he was sorry because he acknowledged that he was actually wrong to do something which was against Jesus, you know, and sin.
Speaker 1:Then you know, like I do think, if you really accepted God's true grace in your life, you will start a beautiful journey of transformation and that transformation will lead you to trying to become pure. And in your attempt to become pure, you won't have a stance of I don't have to repent of my sins. You will have a stance of I want to repent because I want to be a pure, I want to live a pure and godly life and it's the right thing to do. Yes, so you know, I think repentance is part of grace. You know, like, we know, that God's given us grace, but just because we've been given that grace doesn't mean we can just do what we want, but just because we've been given that grace doesn't mean we can just do what we want. You know, like if we truly accepted God's grace into our lives, we don't want to, it's go forth and sin no more. We cannot continue to go around and sin.
Speaker 1:And it's really like just think when Jesus healed that other man, like he said go forth and sin no more.
Speaker 2:And you know like at the end of the day, we, we will probably sin a lot, and even me and you we will probably still make a lot of mistakes.
Speaker 1:But the difference is when we come to god and says and we say, god, I'm sorry for my sins, it's not because we, we, we, we believe that we, all of a sudden we're going to go hell if we don't repent of our sins. It comes from a desire of trying to be pure, because we, we know god's grace and that that's not legalistic it's not legal as the new testament it says be holy, because I'm holy.
Speaker 2:Train yourself in godliness, for godliness is of great benefit both in this life and in the life to come. Let us purify ourself from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God. You do that, don't avoid it. Do you know what I mean? You know?
Speaker 1:Dan, every Sunday at our church we do an altar call and we let people pray the sinner's prayer. And I always doesn't matter how I'm feeling on that day, whether I'm feeling close to God or far away from God I always pray that sinner's prayer again, and it's not because I feel that sinner's prayer is going to make a difference in the state of my salvation, because I know I'm saved. I know I'm saved, but I think it's just a beautiful opportunity to say again Lord, I'm sorry for what I've done and thank you for your grace. It's a state of thankfulness.
Speaker 2:Who doesn't want grace? You'd have to be silly. Do Satan's thankfulness. Who doesn't want grace? You'd have to be silly. Do you know what I mean? But on the other hand, I think also with the fear of God, which I think is quite close to repentance. It says in the New Testament many times to fear God. Jesus said to fear God After Jesus died. That doesn't mean that the things Jesus said before he died aren't relevant, because Jesus said this is how you know that you are my disciples when you walk in my words. So you know. And Jesus said if you abide in my words, then you will truly be my disciples. Then you will know the truth and the truth will make you free. So Jesus said to fear God, you know. He said fear not him who can destroy the body, but fear him who can destroy soul and body in hell. Jesus said if your hand offends, you, cut it off. That's not legalistic you so yeah no, dan, I think we've.
Speaker 1:We've given our listeners a few things to think about today. Um, my friends, thank you so much for joining us today. It was really a beautiful podcast and we just want to say thank you to each and every listener. We've checked the stats. It's really been beautiful. We have people from all over the world that know who you guys are, but thank you so much for listening. We pray that God will bless you all, and thank you so much, my friends. That's it from me today, dan. Do you have any lasting thoughts before we end off?
Speaker 2:I think it's not confusing and I think it's not a seesaw.
Speaker 1:So yeah.
Speaker 2:I think you know that's. Yeah, I think if any listeners are out there and you know you have sort of questions or whatever else.
Speaker 1:We have an email that we always drop and you guys can please feel free to actually email us and ask questions you know like, or if you ever would like to feature on the podcast, please let us know. We will make a plan to get you guys to feature.
Speaker 2:So yeah, and read it.
Speaker 1:Read it for yourself, amen yeah, thank you so much, guys.
Speaker 2:Goodbye and god bless yes, thank you everybody, and um, yeah, we hope that you'll do well with jesus amen.